Barna Report: Most Americans Reject the Trinity by David K. Bernard Podcast recording (no venue stated in the delivered transcript) Kind: teaching Scripture: Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16 Source: https://acts238.life/repository/sermons/david-k-bernard--barna-report-most-americans-reject-the-trinity Published by Acts 2:38 Life from the sermon transcript on that page. Free to copy and share with attribution. ------------------------------------------------------------ I think the main takeaway is we don't need to be intimidated by the thought of other Christians believing in the trinity. We simply need to preach the truth of scripture. Uh we don't need to be anti-trinitarian but simply non-trinitarian. Preach that God is one. Preach that Jesus is the one true God manifest in the flesh. Preach the power of the name of Jesus. Repentance from sin. baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as the correct biblical formula. And if we I think we should be confident in proclaiming our message and not be intimidated. You know, the actual numbers and the fact that it would be published in this way is perhaps a little surprising. But in the big picture, no, this is this is understood because uh although trinitarians like to say, well, the weight of church history and the vast majority of Christianity is on our side, when you really define the orthodox doctrine of the trinity according to the Roman Catholic Church, the creeds, uh the classical Protestant denominations, I would probably argue that throughout history and certainly today, only a minority of professing Christians actually believe that um and it perhaps that views similar to ours may have actually been more prominent. For example, probably the most famous Roman Catholic theologian of the 20th century, Carl Roner, Rh-Ne, he said, "Most Christians, and I'm paraphrasing, don't really understand the Trinity. Most Christians are mere monotheists." Uh and then Carl Bart, the most famous Protestant theologian of the 20th century, while he did uh say that he was a trinitarian and defined it as such, he was very careful to oppose uh many concepts perhaps even that the majority of Christians would have today. He was very emphatic. Uh he didn't even like to talk of three persons. He preferred to call them three modes. Um and he would say when talking about um the the identity of God, he he would say God is a person. Uh and in fact, many Christian theologians when they're talking about God being personal versus impersonal, having rationality, having an integrated personality, they will actually use the term God is a person. But then when they come to the doctrine of the Trinity, they will say God is three persons, which sounds to a normal person like a contradiction. But they say, 'Well, we're using the term in two different ways. Uh but but Bart went so far as to say, if you think that there are three persons in the sense of personalities or um I don't know if he used the exact term centers of consciousness, but but having three consciousnesses, then you're a triist. You're not a trinitarian, but you believe in three gods. And what you inherently find this uh trinitarians often veer into tritheism believe in three gods or subordination that subordinationism that Jesus is somehow inferior to God not really the true God. And Bart was very perceptive of saying you know the doctrine of the trinity is not expressly stated in scripture. So while he believed it he believed it was a second order doctrine. It was a human construct trying to protect a biblical truth. And what is the biblical truth? He said, "The biblical truth is that God has come in the flesh." Well, obviously that's essentially what we believe. So if you're interested in that, my book Anchor Points has a chapter on Carl Bart which actually shows that in key points he underscored the same um basic points that we underscore and also he objects and opposes many common trinitarian statements. I see this happening all the time in literature and even in personal discussion or debates or open forums with trinitarian scholars, no less. when they're trying to oppose oneness, they will often say the father, son, and holy spirit are three separate persons. Well, that word separate contradicts the doctrine of the trinity. And so I often correct them by saying, "No, if you're a trinitarian, you're not supposed to believe in separate persons. You believe in distinct persons, but not separate persons." And sometimes they'll say, "Oh, yes, you're right. You know, I didn't mean that." Other times, like um here's here's an example. Dakes reference Bible which is a a maybe I don't know if it's how popular it is now but it used to be quite popular as a trinitarian Pentecostal Bible he said that each member of the godhead has its own separate has his own separate body soul and spirit are separate persons and even the word god can be a singular word or plural word like the word sheep so you say there's one sheep out there's three sheep out there so there's one god out there's three god out there. Well, that's outright tritheism. Uh and then even more shocking, I noticed about two or three years ago, Christianity Today, which is the leading evangelical uh magazine, they did a survey and they wrote an article or they were reporting on a survey and the the article was entitled our favorite heresies and it said says 73% of evangelical Christians, those this isn't the broad uh spectrum. This is people that are supposed to be believing in Jesus as their personal savior, devoted, dedicated. 73% of evangelical Christians agreed, strongly agreed with the statement that Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God. Well, that is subordinationism. That is denying or devaluing the deity of Christ. In fact, that is exactly what the councils of Nika fought over and the winners of Nya who were trinitarian. But as I said in the episode we did on that subject that there were people with essentially oneness beliefs who join those with trinitarian beliefs to combat the idea that Jesus could be a lesser created being. So the council of Nika at the time was not really a vote for the trinity. In later history, you could see it as a key step towards the later doctrine of the trinity. But at the time, it was seen as defending the deity of Christ against Aras. So the view that I just said 73% of Christians espouse, evangelical Christians is really the Aryan view which was defeated at the council of Nika and was the primary impetus towards forming the doctrine of the trinity. Uh and it would be the basically the view held by Jehovah's Witnesses. So, it's shocking that most evangelical Christians would actually be um adopting a doctrine of a group they consider to be a cult. Um so that lets you know something is seriously wrong with the concept of trinitarianism. In fact, if we would just say we're trinitarian, we could define because we do believe in the father, son, and holy spirit. Uh then we would be accepted because it doesn't matter how you define it. It just matters that you say it. And if it were a scriptural statement or or scriptural language, then I would be okay with that. In fact, some people who have observed us um they say, "Well, you are a trinitarian with a small T because you do believe in the father, son, and holy spirit." And I appreciate their attempt to be inclusive. I don't feel compelled to use that uh concept. But for example, the apostles creed which wasn't really from the apostles but an early second century document. It doesn't say trinity or three persons but it says we believe in one God the father. We believe in Jesus Christ son of God. We believe in the holy spirit. And likewise the lausan covenant which is the international agreement that defines evangelicalism. It's the basis of world evangelization. It simply says we believe in one god father son and holy spirit. So we as uh one as Pentecostals can agree with the apostles creed and the lison covenant because it doesn't define the terms father son and holy spirit and we do believe in these scriptural terms uh we define them differently than the classical doctrine of the trinity. So I think it's very interesting uh that when you look at when you dig down into it in fact uh Ken Gil who was the chief librarian at Wheaten College which is a a leading evangelical institution he interprets our view and he calls it the oneness view of the trinity. So he says the traditional doctrine of the trinity is more from Greek philosophy but the oneness view of the trinity uh comes more from Hebrew view of scriptures and is more understandable in modern culture uh in the non-Christian world among Muslims among Jews who are very radically committed to the concept of one god. So he actually feels that what he considers the oneness view of the trinity or the oneness explanation of the trinity is actually helpful in world evangelization. So um it's very interesting to see what's happening. The bottom line is people that attack us because we're oneness uh they really need to attack the vast majority of Christian other Christian groups. uh they they need to recognize we're one of the best defenders of the deity of Jesus Christ. And the problem with these other views is they lessen the deity of Jesus. If he's going to be our savior, how can he save us if he's not truly God? So there's an essential core of oneness theology that other trinitarian that that the the trinitarian world should appreciate because we're one of the foremost champions of the true de deity of Jesus Christ. And in in times past when people denied the trinity, they usually denied the deity of Christ such as the Unitarians and the Jehovah's Witnesses. And so I think uh uh being non-trinitarian had a bad reputation because it was assumed you're devaluing Christ's deity. And so one of the marks that some evangelical evangelicals say of a cult is, well, if you deny the Trinity, you're a cult. Well, they're assuming deny the Trinity equates denying the deity of Jesus. They haven't considered our view that we do believe God is father, son, and holy spirit. We just don't believe these are three centers of consciousness. We don't believe these are three personalities. We don't expect to go to heaven and see three divine beings. And we do believe that Jesus is not one-third of God, but the fullness of God is in him. As Colossians 2:9 says, in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And you know, it's interesting that regard because when I've talked to some trinitarians or read some trinitarians, they're quick to affirm that very thing. One of the leading theologians of the Assemblies of God a number of years ago, I was at a meeting of the Society for Pentecostal Studies and he pulled me aside and he said, um, uh, I I want I just want you to know one thing that when I teach my class, I say when we get to heaven, the only one we will see is Jesus. I said, 'Well, that's very similar to our view. He said, 'I thought you would appreciate that. Uh, that was Stanley Horton, and he wrote a classic systematic theology for the Assemblies of God. And then I also saw WA. Chrisell, he was at one time the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. And in his commentary on re revelation which I've quoted in some of my books or one of my books he said if you go to heaven expect to see three divine beings then then your Mormon your uh Muslim friends and Jewish friends are right. You believe in three gods. The only one we will see in heaven is the Lord Jesus Christ. So somehow they were able to interpret their doctrine of the trinity in a way that's compatible with seeing Jesus Christ. So, uh, you know, uh, some years ago, uh, a United Pentecostal minister who was trained in a trinitarian church, went to a trinitarian Bible college, told me a quote they used, and I've heard it in various contexts. It's a famous saying uh about the trinity. He said, "If you try to understand the trinity," this is what he was told in Bible college, "If you try to understand the trinity, you will lose your mind. But if you deny the trinity, you'll lose your soul." So in other words, don't try to explain it. Don't try to understand it. Don't study it. Just believe it. And obviously that's not acceptable. Uh we know God is far bigger and greater than we are. He's transcendent. We can never hope to understand him in his fullness. And we'll understand much more in the resurrection. Now we see through a glass darkly or through a mirror, but in a mirror, but then face to face. But even so, our finite mind will never be able to comprehend the infinite God. Nevertheless, the fact that God is one is not a mystery. That's stated multiple times, hundreds of times in scripture. The fact that God came in flesh is a mystery from the point of view of how could how could uh Jesus Christ be both fully God and fully human at the same time. And while the inner workings of that will forever be uh mind-boggling or mysterious or miraculous, the fact that it happened is not a mystery. Uh 1 Timothy 3:16, great is the mystery of godliness. And then he tells us what it is. God was manifested in the flesh. So I think this discussion shows that we apostolic are well positioned to reach people in our day and preaching the doctrine of the oneness of God, the full deity of Jesus Christ, the full humanity of Jesus Christ, the power of the name of Jesus, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. These are not impediments to evangelism and uh disciplehip, but these are important components of evangelism and disciplehip. So we don't need to be intimidated. Nor do we need to be antagonistic. So we we don't believe the doctrine of the trinity that that the trinity exists in the way that it's taught. So therefore, how can you preach or teach against something that doesn't exist? We need to preach and teach the positive message of scripture. We do believe in the father, son, and holy spirit. We do believe God is our heavenly father. We do believe he came in flesh as Jesus Christ, the son of God. We do believe the holy spirit is God's spirit working in our lives today. But we find the fullness of revelation in the Lord Jesus Christ who is our savior.