How to Talk to a Trinitarian by David K. Bernard Podcast recording (no venue stated in the delivered transcript) Kind: teaching Scripture: Deuteronomy 6:4, Revelation 4, Revelation 22, Matthew 7:12, Colossians 2:9, Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:18 Source: https://acts238.life/repository/sermons/david-k-bernard--how-to-talk-to-a-trinitarian Published by Acts 2:38 Life from the sermon transcript on that page. Free to copy and share with attribution. ------------------------------------------------------------ well first of all let me just give you some resources um my basic book on the subject is called the Oneness of God and the sequel which goes more into detail in key passag of scripture that are often used by trinitarians is the Oneness view of Jesus Christ now if someone wants a scholarly study which uses technical terms and interacts with latest scholarship my doctoral thesis the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and that is also available through Pentecostal publishing.com as well as directly from the public lisher which is Brill uh so those are some resources on the doctrine of God the Oneness of God but let's talk about how we interact with trinitarians so first I would say we need to have a clear understanding of what we believe and what scripture teaches so we we need to have a clear understanding of what we mean by the Oneness of God the Oneness of God essentially has two propositions first of all there is one God with no distinctions in his eternal essence no persons or centers of Consciousness uh manifestations Works yes we believe in the father Son and Holy Spirit but at the end of the day we believe in one personal god with one personality one Center of Consciousness and that's established in Deuteronomy 64 as well as many other passages I'll hasten to add some trinitarians really come almost to that same point there's a strong debate within trinitarianism whether there is one Center of Consciousness or three centers of Consciousness but we would Clearly say there's one Divine Center of Consciousness you know if you look at a lay level the majority doesn't know and probably I would say in my interaction with the average lay person the most common reactions are it's a mystery I don't know or you know now that you explain it that's the way I see it only a small minority would be adamant trinitarians and that's usually because they've been trained that way or because they've had encounters with one his people and they they're trying to distinguish themselves clearly there's a common expression that goes back to Early times that the Trinity is a mystery so if you um if you try to understand the Trinity you lose your mind but if you deny the Trinity you lose your soul so in other words don't try to investigate just believe it um but um so but my my thought would be so let me go back to the first point so we have to understand the Oneness Doctrine and it has two parts the first part there's one God with no distinction of persons no distinctions in his eternal Essence but the second part is Jesus Christ is the Incarnation of the one God he is the Son of God which means the one true God manifested In the Flesh he's both human and divine so there is a human Center of Consciousness or or maybe I would would not say Center but I would say he had both Divine and human self-consciousness within his one nature and that's a big subject that is that is a mystery The Mystery of the Incarnation not a mystery of God which I think I've discussed that before but the concept of Jesus being the Son of God and true human is very important but for our purposes right now um we would emphasize that Jesus is the one true God incarnate that all all the fullness of the godhead dwells in him so Jesus is the manifestation and revelation of the father Jesus is the son of God the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus so my first main point is you have to understand the Oneness of God with its various nuances as I've just described in two parts the second thing I would say is you need to understand trinitarianism which we kind of started but the doct of the Trinity is that there's one God in three persons now we often hear them as speaking of three gods and indeed we can press them the logic of your position would lead you to three Gods which directly contradicts Deuteronomy 64 and hundreds of other passages but they deny they mean that so I think at least we can't just say trinitarianism believes in three Gods we have to at least take them at their word and try to reason with them and show the problem so they say there's one God but three Persons Of course the trick is what do you mean by person and if you mean like a self-conscious being as in colloquial Modern English well that is three gods and that is a direct contradiction of scripture but if you mean on the other hand manifestations well that's the Oneness position so trinitarians one good way to talk to them is what do you mean by person uh and another way to ask that is oh so when you get to heaven are you going to see three persons on three Thrones if you say yes well that's three Gods you just just contradicted what you claimed moreover it contct scripture because Revelation 4 says there's one on the throne there's one throne and one on the throne and in revelation 22 we actually know who that is the one on the one Throne is called God and the lamb but not as two beings sitting side by side on one Throne or in one another's lap but God the lamb is one being with one name one face that's off you see Jesus Christ he's the one true God who according to his human identity was sacrificed for our sin as the lamb so the Book of Revelation is clear there's one God on one Throne he's going to be revealed as Jesus Christ so that's uh so I found a good way to ask the trinitarians what do you believe one God three persons and so there's this tension and they'll usually say it's a mystery you say okay but who are you praying to do you spend five minutes to the father five minutes to the son five minutes to the Holy Spirit Well then you have three gods but if you just pray in Jesus name to one God you know maybe you are more like us when you get to heaven if you're going to see three different beings on three Thrones that's three gods that contradict scripture if you're going to see one who is that one and if you say Jesus well now you're more Oneness than a trinitarian uh and I press them on that because many sometimes they'll say I don't know and he we say well it's okay if we don't know all things about heaven and the future and the last things but you mean you don't know who you're going to see you don't know who you're praying to you don't know who you're worshiping you don't have a clear understanding if you look at trinitarian artwork they'll they'll have an old man a young man and a dove is that literal is that you go to heaven one of your you're going to see an old man a young man and a dove and you're going to worship the dove the animal or sometimes the artwork has three identical men or one person one male or man figure with three faces well of course these are probably all symbolic but what I'm saying is in just talking to them you need to understand what they say but then use that to press them what do you really believe now my third point and and I'll be careful here I and I in saying talking about this as fellow on Believers it's some of this can be a little humorous but I don't mean to be disrespectful we're going to approach trinitarians we have to approach with respect um the Golden Rule Matthew 712 do unto others if you as you would have them do unto you so you you seek to hear them to understand them to find common ground where you can agree and then respectfully disagree don't deny that they may have genuine Faith genuine love for God so you're not trying to win an argument but you're trying to win a soul or you're trying to at least create a bridge where there's a common understanding that maybe you can lead them to to further truth so that should be your attitude ude a lot of times I like to say this I'm not an anti-trinitarian I'm a non-trinitarian what do I mean by that my mission is not to fight against the Trinity it is true I'm not a trinitarian in the classical sense I don't believe one God is three distinct persons but that doesn't mean I'm anti- people who are trinitarian and in fact I Don't Preach against the Trinity I preach for the truth as I see it in scripture so when I preach I'm never attacking the trinity I'm just preaching the themes of scripture one God Jesus Christ God manifest In the Flesh Son of God power in the name of Jesus people respond whether they're trinitarians or Oneness they un respond to the message of scripture they believe it they respond to it they repent they're baptized Jesus name they receive the Holy Ghost now sometimes when I'm doing detailed teaching I may as a teaching tool say here's what we believe and here's a contrast to trinitarianism to show the difference and here's the scripture that will show why these trinitarian concepts are erroneous so uh it's not you know so there will be times I'll explain the error of trinitarianism but my basic uh point is not to be against the Trinity because I don't even believe there is a trinity my point is to be for the doctrine of God and for the identity of Jesus Christ as the one true God manifest In the Flesh so that's the approach and if you're going to have a discussion that you want to Pur persuade you try to find the common ground what can we agree on there's one God Jesus is truly God but now let's press the points of disagreement is the fullness of the godhead in Jesus as Colossians 2:9 States or is he just one of three different persons um who are you going to see in heaven three or one and if you're going to see one who's the one um so some of those questions uh do you think there are three different Spirits or one Spirit can you feel the presence of the father one side of the room and presence of the sun over here and the presence of the spirit or is there one Spirit one presence if so in what meaningful sense are there three different persons so I I have a number of questions in my book The Oneness of God that try to press into that a little bit more but my basic thought would be we find Common Ground if you believe there is one God you believe Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God meaning God manifest In the Flesh he's our Lord and savior if you're willing to repent of your sins if you're willing to open your heart to receive the Holy Spirit and then we show them as we've discussed other podcasts about the truth of water baptism in Jesus name I do believe even if someone doesn't have a completely uh comprehensive or accurate understanding of God they can still believe Jesus as Lord and Savior and Obey acts 238 so that's how children in our ranks are saved that's how most visitors who come and are saved most of them don't intellect go through a a lengthy understanding of changing from Trinity to Oneness they just respond in faith to the message and I think they're saved thereafter According to second Peter 3:18 grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ so these things are very important but I and and maybe for some before they're willing to be baptized in Jesus name they have to have complete comprehensive understanding and that's fine but my point would be to lead people to Le faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior Son of God God manifest flesh lead them to obey acts 238 and when they do they're filled with the spirit Jesus said the spirit is given to lead and guide into all truth so so really you're going to be more productive if someone will obey acts 238 it will be easier to lead them further into truth now as I said sometimes we may need to have this discussion to get them to that point and that's perfectly fine but if if that's the case we have to keep our end goal in mind we want to treat them with respect we want to see where they are and show them the inadequacies of their position but lead them to a more full understanding building on the positive things they have but lead them into a fuller understanding knowing that ultimately God has to Enlighten them open their understanding so they can see the truth of scripture for themselves and then they will get uh a clear we call it a revelation and we don't mean an extra biblical Revelation but we mean a personal enlightening and opening of our understanding to understand what the Bible teaches about God and about the Lord Jesus Christ