Are There Modern-Day Apostles and Prophets?

Summary

Summary prepared by Acts 2:38 Life from the transcript below — the preacher’s words follow in full.

The five-fold ministry — and the three familiar offices

• The question posed (in the host's frame): in ephesians (the verse as the frame gives it), the apostle paul outlines what's frequently referred to as the five-fold ministry. And he lists five ministerial offices: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Now, in the modern church, we're very familiar with the position of pastor. And many churches make room for the office of a teacher ('make out a room', as heard in the frame). And many groups — including the united pentecostal church — officially recognize the office of the evangelist. However, we don't hear as much today about apostles and prophets. Why is this? And do you believe that apostles and prophets are operating, in the church today? The answer: yes, i do believe the fivefold ministry exists, in the church today. And for background, i would refer you to my book, spiritual leadership in the 21st century. Also, the upci, in its manual — which is distributed to ministers — has a position paper on church government, which briefly mentions the fivefold ministry. So let's talk about (it) a little bit more. If you look at ephesians chapter four: these ministries are god's gift, to the church. So yes, i do believe they exist. And they are ministerial positions, or offices, or callings, that are designed to equip the saints — that is, the believers — for the work of ministry, or service. For the building up, of the body of christ. So, to put this in perspective: god gives these leaders. And so i would say: their job, collectively — they are the preachers, teachers, leaders of the church. These are the people to whom the upci would give ministerial credentials. So these preachers slash teachers slash leaders train the whole body of believers, the saints. And that enables the whole body: when all the saints are working together, then the body of christ is built up. So, from that perspective, i do believe in the five-fold ministry. As you've mentioned (a fused caption timestamp fragment is struck from this sentence by the recorded fix): it's very common for us to identify someone as a pastor, as a teacher, or as an evangelist. And so let me focus on those. The pastor: there, i do believe every local church has a senior leader, that we would call the pastor. Sometimes you'd say the senior pastor, lead pastor. In the new testament, the word pastor is used in the plural ('is is using the plural', as the words run). It's also used equivalently, with the word elders. And also equivalent, with the word bishops. Bishop means overseer. Pastor means shepherd. So i think there are two different ways of describing the same office. Bishop is referring to the role of oversight, or the authority that's involved. And pastor's referring to the function: of feeding the flock, taking care of the flock, protecting the flock. And so that speaks of the responsibility. And i might just make an aside: sometimes we use the term bishop, for other types of leaders — leaders of leaders. But i'm just speaking in the new testament. If you want to look at acts chapter 20. If you look at first peter chapter 5. Then you will see also titus chapter 1. You will see that the titles of elder, and bishop, and pastor, are used interchangeably. And so my point simply there is: we understand this would be the senior leader. And others who assist. Like a leadership team of pastors. Or maybe the collective — in the new testament, they were usually small house churches. They didn't have one central place to assemble, in most cases. And so we would look at the pastors of a city, as the leadership team of that local church. Or maybe the collective group of house church pastors. And then teachers. And often that can overlap. Because typically a pastor is also a teacher. But some people have a teaching ministry, even though they're not in a pastoral position. Then evangelist: we often use that for itinerant preacher. But actually it means: someone whose ministry focuses on the lost. So it could be what we think of as a preacher, who comes and preaches, and many people repent, and receive the holy spirit. Or maybe it could even refer more to a soul winner, who's a proficient bible study teacher, and to win souls that way. Somebody that's operating in the local church (a repeated clause with a 'yes' stands in the delivered text at this point — the seam is disclosed on the record). So those three are fairly easy to understand.

Scriptures: Ephesians 4:11; Acts 20; 1 Peter 5; Titus 1

Apostles — the Twelve unique, others sent for a purpose

• Apostle and prophet: we don't often just go out and label someone. And we usually don't respond very well, if someone self-labels. And the reason is: throughout church history, and even in the new testament, we find many false apostles, and false prophets. Where people will claim these as titles of authority, to go in and try to take over a local church, or go against the pastor of that church. And so let me simply say: whatever an apostle, or a prophet, is: it's not designed to usurp church government. So, in the local church, we have a structure of government, authority — which would include the pastor, and other senior leaders, deacons, and so forth. And in the body at large — the group of collective churches — as in acts (the chapter as he gives it): there was a council, at jerusalem, of apostles and elders, that made decisions for the larger body, and sent letters to all the churches, to follow. So there is a church government structure, beyond the local church. So whatever an apostle or prophet may be (a fused caption timestamp fragment is struck from this sentence by the recorded fix): it doesn't grant authority, to overturn the church governance, of a local church. Or the church governance, of the body at large. But if you just look at the words: apostle means someone who has (been) sent. Someone with a commission. Of course, the 12 apostles that jesus chose are unique. Because they were eyewitnesses, of jesus christ, his ministry. He used them to establish the church. So no one can have that role, today. No one could write scripture. No one can establish the universal church. That's already been done. And that's why the book of revelation talks about the new jerusalem: it has 12 foundations, which are the 12 — the names of the 12 apostles. So obviously there can be no other. And you even see this: while the early church did replace judas, but after the day of pentecost, they didn't replace any other. So when the apostle james was executed, in acts (the chapter as he gives it), they didn't replace him. So, in that sense, the 12 apostles are irreplaceable. Now, the apostle paul was specially chosen, out of due season, as apostle to the gentiles. So he's equal to the 12. But no one can take their place. However, in the new testament, other people are also given the title of apostles. Such as silas, barnabas, apollos. James, the brother of the lord — not one of the twelve, but the leader of the church, in jerusalem. And so: andronicus and junia — male and female — acts (the chapter as he gives it, for the pair), apparently a husband and wife team. So, in what sense are all these other people apostles? Well, i think they're specially sent by god, for a purpose. Typically, we might think of (them) as a pioneer missionary, opening up a new area of the gospel. Or a key ethnic, or regional, leader. So the book of galatians (the chapter as he gives it) talks about: peter, the apostle to the jews. Paul, the apostle to the gentiles ('paul the apostles the gentiles', as heard). And then james again — not one of the twelve, but the brother of jesus — as the leader, in jerusalem. And so those were all considered apostles. So it seems that apostle is designated, for those key leaders, who open up regions, or ethnicities, to the gospel. So: do those exist today? Certainly. Do we recognize them? Yes. We might usually call them missionary, or leader. Simply because we don't want the confusion, of claiming an authority that's not proper.

Scriptures: Acts 15; Revelation (book-only); Acts 12; Acts 16; Galatians 2

Prophets — spokesmen who give direction

• Now, the term prophet ('the term profit', as heard) literally means: a spokesman, for god. So, in one sense, every preacher would be a prophet. But there are some who seem to have this special office, or calling, of a prophet. Where they are preachers to the preachers. Or they give direction, to the church. Now, we often think of prophecies, for telling the future. And sometimes that's part of it. But more generally, prophecy is not about foretelling the future. But it's about giving direction. And we do find, the book of acts, prophets. So some prophets prophesied that a famine would come to jerusalem ('that a family would come to jerusalem', as heard). And so they gave guidance, and warning, to the church, of how to prepare, what to do. So: do those types of ministries exist? Yes. So we think of them as preachers to the preachers. Leaders of the leaders. But we don't necessarily use the titles, again. Because we're not trying to imply something non-biblical, which has arisen over the centuries ('which has origin or risen', as the words run). And, as i said, even in the new testament — like the book of revelation: there are false apostles, false prophets ('fossil prophets', as heard). So this is not a new thing: some people claiming to be apostles and prophets, and they're really not. And so, rather than try having to define the term, every time: we simply recognize leaders, and use them. And they exercise their ministry. And i think: as we talk about this more and more, we will become more and more accustomed, to using these terms. But again: we would be reluctant, for someone who self-proclaims, that: i'm an apostle, i'm a prophet. Because we question: what do they mean? And what kind of authority are they trying to exert? Which they don't have. Because really, authority can only be given by god, and recognized by the church, and the collective body of believers. And we do have structures, for how we recognize leadership, and how we select leadership, in the local church, and in the body at large.

Scriptures: Acts (book-only)

Recognized by God and the church — the Ephesians 4:12 goal

• To summarize: we do believe in the fivefold ministry. But a mature understanding, of this: the various leaders, and preachers, work together, as a team. So, rather than trying to focus on each person: there can be overlap. There can be change, over time. The main thing is: for each minister, to fulfill the calling that god has given. And for the church, to recognize the calling. So, in acts (the chapter as he gives it): when paul and barnabas were sent out, as missionaries — so we could say, they were sent out, as apostles — there was a witness of the holy spirit. It said: the holy spirit said so. There — apparently some kind of — whether it was tongues, or prophecy, or tongues interpretation, or some other means — there was a supernatural impartation, and calling. But the church recognized. And the church laid hands on them. And the church sent them out. So whatever calling someone has — even if god has given it — it needs to be jointly recognized, and endorsed, by god and the church. That provides a safeguard, when ministers are sent, by god and the church. And that's why i believe: every person that feels some kind of ministerial calling — those five-fold ministry, collectively — they should work, to get minister credentials, with the upci. And we have a system of licensing ('a system of local general inordination', as the ladder compresses in the hearing). If they feel called, to the preaching, teaching, leadership ministry: they should get local license, and general (license) ('get local licensed in general', as heard). And they should not stop, until they get ordination. Because ordination: it's more than an organizational thing. It's more than checking a box. It's a spiritual thing, where they fulfill the ministry, and they have the endorsement of the elders, according to the teaching of scripture. And so i believe that's the key: that whatever ministry god has given, it must be recognized, by the church. And it must work in harmony, with the other ministers. And with the church governance structure. So that the goal — the end goal, ephesians (the verse as he gives it) — is that the body of christ might be built up.

Scriptures: Acts 13; Ephesians 4:12

Scripture index: Ephesians 4:11; Acts 20; 1 Peter 5; Titus 1; Acts 15; Revelation (book-only); Acts 12; Acts 16; Galatians 2; Acts (book-only); Acts 13; Ephesians 4:12.