How Do Oneness Pentecostals Explain John 17:5?

Summary

Summary prepared by Acts 2:38 Life from the transcript below — the preacher’s words follow in full.

The objection — and the prayer read from its first verses

• The host's frame, carried from the verbatim layer: one of the objections trinitarians sometimes throw at oneness believers is this verse, from the prayer of Jesus: I have glorified you on the earth; I have finished the work which you have given me to do; and now, father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was. Is this an indication that Jesus pre-existed the incarnation? Oneness believers don't believe the son of God existed prior to the incarnation — so how do they explain this verse? He notes a previous episode covers why Jesus prayed, for anyone who wants that background.
• For an in-depth answer he points to a chapter in his book on the oneness view of Jesus Christ. But look at the verse here: it's very insightful, very valuable — in fact a very strong oneness passage. From a trinitarian point of view, the common statement would be: there are three persons in the trinity, and you see two of them here, the father and the son; they're co-equal, they're co-eternal, and the son is praying to the father. On the surface that sounds like a good explanation — but when you look at it carefully, it falls apart. First of all: he prayed as a genuine human, just as we need to pray. Jesus as a human needed to submit himself to God, and he was also giving an example for us to follow. It should not shock us that Jesus prayed — actually it should shock us if Jesus didn't pray, because if he's an authentic human being, a righteous human being, of course he needed to pray.
• But now look at who he's praying to. Go back to verse three: and this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent — he's reading from the new King James, as he says. He's praying to the only true God. Go back to verse one, where he started the prayer: father, the hour has come; glorify your son. Now, if you say father and son are two different persons — or father, son, and holy spirit are three different persons — then according to the express statement of Jesus, only one of them is the true God, because he addressed the father as the only true God, and verse three seemingly puts Jesus outside that. As he likes to say: if this is a trinitarian argument, it proves too much — it proves only one of the three persons is God and the other two aren't really God. And notice: it doesn't mention the holy spirit at all. From a trinitarian perspective you'd have to know two of the three eternal persons to be saved, but you don't need to know the third one — you can just ignore him. That's not what's going on. What he's saying: if you want to be saved, all salvation comes from the one true God — our creator, our heavenly father. The Jews believed that, but many of the Jews rejected Christ. So he goes on: salvation is not only based on knowing the one true God; you have to know God's plan of salvation, which is in Jesus Christ — and here he's speaking of himself, but as a human being. You have to know there's one God, but you have to know that God came in flesh as a true human, and that true human would be the sacrifice for sin: that's your salvation. So the duality here — not a trinity, but a duality — is not two persons of God (if so, only one of them is God). The duality is: you have to know the one true God, and you have to know the plan of salvation through the man Christ Jesus. That kind of sets the tone.

Scriptures: John 17:5; John 17:3; John 17:1

Verse 4: 'glorify me' means the cross, the burial, the resurrection

• Then he says, verse four: I've glorified you on earth; I've finished the work. He's looking at his upcoming death, which will be the culmination — when he died he said: it is finished — and of course he had to rise from the dead as well. But he says now, at this particular time: glorify me. What is he talking about? His death, burial, and resurrection. Go back to John 12: he talks about — if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men to me — and John explains he's talking about the death that he would die. His whole life was lived for this culminating moment, where he would die for the sins of the world, he would be buried, he would be resurrected with a glorified body, he would ascend to heaven and reign in glory.
• So basically he's saying: the time has come; I, as a man, have done the job, and I'm getting ready to finish it by laying down my life. I'm asking you, God, to vindicate me — raise me from the dead, glorify me, fulfill your plan.

Scriptures: John 17:4; John 12

'The glory I had with you': a son born in time, a lamb foreordained from the beginning

• Now it might sound like: oh, so there was a second person. No — he's talking about himself as the son. And if you look at Luke 1:35: the son was born of the virgin Mary; the holy spirit would overshadow her, and therefore that child would be called the son of God. Galatians 4:4: when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his son, made of a woman, made under the law. The Bible never uses the term eternal son — but begotten son, only begotten son. And the Bible never says God the son, as if it was a term of deity — but the son of God. In the Bible, the son is God as he has manifested in the flesh. So, since the flesh had a beginning, we can say: God is eternal; the spirit of God is eternal; the spirit that was in Jesus is eternal — so Jesus is eternal in that sense — but his flesh is not eternal. He was born as a son in time, of a woman, during the time of the law.
• So what glory is he talking about? As already explained, his upcoming death — but compare it in 1 Peter 1: it says the lamb was foreordained before the foundation of the world. And in Revelation 13: the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. What does that mean? Historically, was Jesus crucified before creation? Was he crucified in eternity? No — in time. But in the plan and purpose of God, it was foreordained. When God created Adam and Eve, he created them to have fellowship with him — well, didn't he realize they would sin, and that would break the fellowship? So why did he proceed with the creation? Because he also had, from the very beginning, a plan of salvation. Even though Jesus did not die until the fullness of time, in the plan of God the crucifixion was predestined, foreordained — so much so that Romans 4 says God can call those things which are not as though they are. God can say the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. We're not talking about an eternal cross, or an eternal human — we're talking about God's eternal plan.
• And so you can see Jesus now praying at this climactic moment, where he knows he's going to have to surrender his life — he's going to have to say: not my will, but your will be done; the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. He's going to have to go through this ordeal of the cross — not only the physical punishment, but taking on the sins of the world, that spiritual desolation where he feels: my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Jesus sees all that, and he says: God, as the Messiah, as a human, I've been faithful — now is the time to fulfill it. The glory that you planned from the beginning, now fulfill it.

Scriptures: Luke 1:35; Galatians 4:4; 1 Peter 1; Revelation 13; Romans 4

Three problems if the glory were a second person's glory

• It's not talking about the eternal glory of a second person of the godhead — because if that's what it's talking about, you have multiple problems. Number one: if Jesus is the second eternal person, could he lose glory? Can God lose his glory? Did the second person of the trinity get rid of his glory? How could God not have glory and still be God? If it's 'first person, give me my glory back' — well, did he lose it? The second problem: Isaiah 43, as he cites it, says: I will not give my glory to another. So if Jesus is another person — if the father is the only true God — God says he will not give his glory to anyone else.
• And then the clincher: if you keep reading this prayer, Jesus proceeds to pray for his disciples who were there, and he says — verse 22 — the glory that you've given me, I have given them. The same glory he's now giving to his disciples. If it's the glory of God as the second person of the trinity, does that mean now the disciples are also members of the godhead — Peter, James, and John are going to have the same glory, three, four, five, twelve more members of the trinity? No. But if you understand it as the cross, then he's saying: give me that glory which you planned — that when I'm crucified on the cross, when I'm buried, when I'm resurrected, I will be revealed as fulfilling God's plan, with glory. That glory of the crucifixion and the resurrection will be shared with the apostles, because then they will proceed to preach that glory. So obviously the glory cannot be the divine glory of a person of the godhead; it has to be the glory of the incarnation, and the atonement, and the resurrection — which glory can be, and was, and is, shared with the followers of Jesus Christ.

Scriptures: Isaiah 43; John 17:22

Why this is an important oneness passage

• So although it may seem to be a little metaphorical, when you think it through: Jesus, as a true human, is surrendering himself to God's plan, and saying: the plan for my life that you had from the beginning — now fulfill it. And once you do that, I will share the victory with everybody who believes in me. And that's why it's an important oneness passage: because it's all focused on what Jesus has done for us — and we're sharing in his glory today. Thank God.

Scripture index: John 17:5; John 17:3; John 17:1; John 17:4; John 12; Luke 1:35; Galatians 4:4; 1 Peter 1; Revelation 13; Romans 4; Isaiah 43; John 17:22.