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How Do We Raise Children Who Stay in the Church?

Podcast recording (no venue stated in the delivered transcript)

Apostolic Life in the 21st Century, Episode 216 (podcast teaching episode)

Transcript of a published teaching by David K. Bernard, transcribed from YouTube. An attributed primary source — not Acts 2:38 Life doctrine text.

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Summary

Summary prepared by Acts 2:38 Life from the transcript below — the preacher’s words follow in full.

No guarantees — and his own family's testimony

  • The host's frame, carried from the verbatim layer: he's the parent of two children, and his greatest desire is to raise his kids to be apostolic — to follow in his footsteps as a believer. There are no guarantees: his kids have free will, like him, and nothing can absolutely ensure it. But he has been a pastor, coaching and counseling parents, and is the father of three children, all in the church and involved in ministry. What are the key principles — for parents, and grandparents too — that increase the likelihood?
  • First, underscore what the host said: each person, as they become an adult, has the ability to choose. No matter how wonderful the parents or the training, we cannot guarantee a child will grow up and serve the Lord. We can increase the odds tremendously, give them every advantage — but in the end they have to make a choice. God had two kids to start with, Adam and Eve, and they both sinned. Adam and Eve's children that we know — Cain, Abel, and Seth — one third of those became an evil person. Jesus had 12 apostles and lost one of them for sure; the others fell short, ran away from the cross except apparently John, and Peter denied him — but eventually 11 of the 12 came back. Even under the best circumstances, you can't guarantee unlimited success.
  • He describes his own stage of life: all of their kids are grown, married, have children, and are all serving God — that was their highest goal. As an unexpected bonus, they've all been called to the pastoral ministry: two sons and a daughter, and then two daughters-in-law and a son-in-law, whom they consider their kids too — five of those six kids have ministerial credentials with the UPCI, and they're mature ministers in their own right. He's extremely thankful, but he could not have guaranteed that, or made it happen by his ability — and his mother's side had the same testimony as first generation converts: he has eight grandkids, some of them babies too young to receive the Holy Spirit, but all of them seven years and up have been baptized in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost — and in his mother's family, three generations had that same record: everybody old enough to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost, was.

The Austin study, and the five factors

  • In his book The Apostolic Church in the 21st century, he did a chapter looking at the first 16 years of the church they started in Austin: he tried to track every child who came into the church for at least one year, was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost, and then grew up and turned 18 — did they remain in church, or leave? It's not a scientific survey, just one experience. The total he counted was 86: 63% of them were faithful members of the church as adults, and another 15 were at least attending — that's 78%. Looking at why the others dropped out, he was surprised: 94% he attributed primarily to family issues. Here are the key factors.
  • Number one: faithfulness in church attendance and support — and obviously, a strong relationship with God that the kids have to see at home. Number two: consistency in following the teachings of the church and supporting the leadership. There might be issues where you disagree with an interpretation or an application, but if you say, I'm going to follow what the church says, I'm going to follow what the leadership says — that cooperative, faithful attitude.
  • Number three: maintaining a good marriage, and good communication in the home — if the kids see inconsistency in the marriage, divorce, or emotional abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, or constant fighting, that's a detriment. Number four: maintaining loving, firm, and consistent discipline of children. He saw people who were faithful in church but let their children do whatever they wanted — if you don't want to follow what the pastor says, don't worry about it; if you don't feel like coming to church, don't come — not training the child to take responsibility, and in any conflict with the church, always jumping to defend their kid, right or wrong. Number five: maintaining self-discipline, goals, and a strong work ethic in the parents' own personal lives — parents hopping from job to job, inconsistent in their own decisions and commitments, negligent in general, bred that same negligence and lack of discipline in spiritual things in the children, even though the parents stayed in church.

The spirit kids pick up, and one strong parent

  • On the second factor: he had some leaders who were seen to be good leaders, but he later learned they were very critical of different church members — and their kids picked up on that spirit. Sometimes parents would gripe at the teachings of the church, but they would settle down and follow it. Well, the kids followed the spirit of the parents' griping — about people in the church they didn't like, leaders they didn't like, decisions of the pastor they didn't like — and said, well, why should I have to? My parents are critical; they just weren't strong enough to do anything about it, but I'm going to do something about it. So if parents do have struggles and criticisms, as much as possible deal with that separate, apart from anything the kids can see.
  • Here's an encouraging finding: even if the youth lived in a single parent home, or a two parent home where only one member attended church, they still had about the same success as when both parents attended church — as if at least one parent was very strong and consistent in these things. You might expect that, because 1 Corinthians 7 talks about the unbelieving spouse: should you leave them? Basically no — if they're willing to remain, remain, because you can sanctify the children. Not that the children are automatically saved, but you might win your unsaved spouse, and in the meantime you're giving your children a good, solid, godly environment so they can be saved even if your spouse is not.
  • So much depends on parents being faithful and consistent. Whatever your own inward struggles are, they remain inward — but your behavior, your speech, your conversation is what's going to count. If you're a hypocrite, you're going to sabotage your kids: you have to actually be the kind of Christian that you profess to be, and that you want your kids to be. And the good news is, even in a very worldly atmosphere, we can raise up kids who serve the Lord.

Scriptures: 1 Corinthians 7

Education and communication: the secondary considerations

  • He would also add: having a strong church, and having a strong attention to their education. If they're in public school, you have to constantly be monitoring what they're learning, and discussing with them what they're learning — you need a good relationship with your kids, where they can talk to you about anything, and maybe even volunteering at the school just to see what's going on. And the school systems are sometimes so worldly that we should really consider a private Christian school, even if it's not apostolic, or maybe homeschool, or a homeschool co-op.
  • In his own family: his oldest son went through public school, but for the other two children the environment was so difficult that in middle school they were able to find a Christian school — and today his grandkids are mostly, if not all, homeschooled.
  • And communication: he and his wife both tried to have personal time with the kids, individually and collectively as a family. Monday night was their night of family devotions and also family activities. They tried to have supper every night, unless he was out of town, together, where they talked. That communication is so important; that relationship is going to be very valuable.

Scripture index: 1 Corinthians 7.

Transcript

You know that's an important question and I want to underscore some things you said. First of all whatever I say uh we really do understand each person as they become an adult they have an ability to choose and no matter how wonderful the parents or no matter how wonderful the training we cannot guarantee that a child is going to grow up and serve the Lord. Uh we want them to we believe we can increase the odds tremendously. We can give them every advantage but in the end they have to make a choice. So God had two kids to start with. Adam and Eve, they both sinned.

Adam and Eve had uh multiple children, but we know the ones we know uh Cain, Abel, and Seth, onethird of those became an evil person. Um Jesus had 12 apostles and he lost one of them for sure. All the others seemed to fall short. um ran away from the cross except for apparently John uh Peter denied him. So at least temporarily he had a very poor track record but eventually one you know back 11 of the 12. So even under the best circumstances you can't guarantee unlimited success. So my wife and I are now at the stage of life all of our kids are grown.

They're married. They all have children and they're all serving God, which is that was our highest goal. As an unexpected bonus, uh they've all been called to the pastoral ministry and counting my uh have two sons, a daughter, and and I have then two daughters-in-law and a son-in-law, which we consider our kids, too. So, five of those six kids have ministerial credentials with the UPCI, and they're mature ministers in their own right. So I'm extremely thankful, but I realize that I could not have guaranteed that or made that happen by my ability. I also reflect my parents on my mother's side. She was a first generation convert, but they had the same testimony.

So, you know, I have eight grandkids as I speak. uh some of them are are are babies too young to receive the Holy Spirit. But I could say that all of them that you would expect to have received the Holy Ghost, let's say uh seven years and up have all been baptized in Jesus' name and receive the Holy Ghost. So hopefully that's continuing in the next generation. And and so in my mother's family, they were all first generation converts. And we had that same testimony of three generations. everybody old enough to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost was baptized and received the Holy Ghost.

So, that's a wonderful track record that I hope to continue and perpetuate. Um, in my book, The Apostolic Church in the 21st century, I actually did a chapter looking at the first 16 years of the church that we started in Austin. I tried to track every child that came into the church at least for one year. So, that's a low bar. was baptized in Jesus name, filled with the Holy Ghost, and then they grew up, turned 18. What happened to them? Did they remain in church or did they leave the church? And of course, that would include people who weren't in church very long, but I just wanted for the sake of um research.

It's not a scientific survey, but just one experience. The total I counted was 86. And here's what I found. 63% of them were faithful members of the church as adults. Another 15 were at least attending. Although I wouldn't necessarily consider that they fulfilled everything we wished. Still, they're coming and hopefully will make consecrations or renew consecrations. Well, that's 78%. Uh that's a pretty high percentage. But I looked at why were I tried to categorize why did I think they dropped out and I was surprised at this 94% I attribute it primarily to family issues. So here's what I found. Um here are the key factors and so this directly addresses your question to maximize children staying in church after they're adults.

Number one, faithfulness in church attendance and support. Number two, consistency in following the teachings of the church and supporting the leadership. So you know what the church teaches for everybody to follow. And there might be some issues where you say, "Well, I I disagree with that interpretation or I agree with that application." But if you just continue if you say, "But I'm going to follow what the church says. I'm going to follow what the leadership says." this cooperative, faithful attitude. Um, number three, maintaining a good marriage, a good good communication in the home. So, if they see inconsistency in the marriage, divorce or uh emotional abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, or constant fighting, that's a detriment.

Number four, maintaining loving, firm, and consistent discipline of children. So, I saw people that were faithful in church, but they let their children do whatever they want. They were faithful, but it seemed like they were saying, you know, if you don't want to follow what the pastor says, don't worry about it. Or if you don't feel like coming to church, don't come. Or um you know, not being not not training the child to take responsibility. Uh or if there's a conflict, always in the church, always jumping to defend their kid right or wrong. Uh and then number five, maintaining self-discipline goals and a strong work ethic in their personal lives.

I'm talking about the parents. So if the parents were hopping from job to job and inconsistent in their own um decisions or own commitments or just negligent in general, um then that seemed to breed that same kind of um negligence or lack of discipline in spiritual things. So even though the parents stayed in church, their very inconsistent uh life um lack of discipline in their life translate to spiritual lack of discipline in the children. So let me go through those again. Faithful listened to churches and it support. So I I would include obviously a strong relationship with God that people have to the kids have to see that at home.

Number two, consistency and following the teachings of the church supporting its leadership. And you know there I I had some leaders that were seen to be good leaders but I later learned they're very critical of different church members or their kids picked up on that spirit and what the parents were able to maybe adjust in their thinking their kids couldn't. You know sometimes parents would gripe at the teachings of the church but they would settle down and follow it. Well, the kids followed the spirit or of the parents griping about other people in the church they didn't like or leaders they didn't like or decisions of the pastor they didn't like.

But that yes, they settled down and followed it. But the kids picked up on that spirit said, "Well, why should I have to?" You know, my parents are critical. They just didn't they weren't strong enough to do anything about it, but I'm going to do something about it. So, um, number three, maintain a good marriage, good communication in the home. Number four, maintaining loving, firm, and consistent disciplined children. Number five, maintaining their own self-disciplined goals and a strong work ethic in their personal lives. So, here's the positive things. So, even if the youth lived in a single parent home or a two parent home where only one member attended church, they still had about the same success as when both parents attended church.

So it just seemed like as if at least one parent was very strong and consistent in the things that I mentioned and you might expect that because 1 Corinthians 7 talks about if you have an unbelieving spouse should you leave them and basically no if they're willing to remain remain u because you'll you can sanctify the children. So I think that's one example. Not that the children are automatically saved, but but you can you might win your unsaved spouse, but in the meantime, you're also sanctifying your children. You're giving a good, solid, godly environment so that your children can be saved even if your spouse is not saved.

So I do think um so much depends on parents being faithful and consistent. And if parents do have struggles and criticisms as much as possible, deal with that separate apart from anything the kids can see. And there's a lot to be said for, you know, being a consistent example. So whatever your own inward struggles are, they remain inward. But your behavior is what's going to ultimately and and your when I say behavior, your speech, your conversation. um if you're a hypocrite, you're going to sabotage your kids. So, you have to actually be the kind of Christian that you profess to be and that you want your kids to be.

So, I think the good news is even in a very worldly atmosphere, uh we can raise up kids who serve the Lord. Now, I would also add having a strong church and having a strong attention to their education. So, if they're in public school, you have to constantly be monitoring what they're learning and discussing with them what they're learning. So, you need to have a good relationship with your kids where they can talk to you about anything. Um, and maybe even volunteering at the school just to see what's going on. And in our days, sometimes the school systems are so whirly that we should really consider a private Christian school, even if it's not apostolic or maybe homeschool or a homeschool co-op.

So although uh my oldest son went through public school uh my other two children the environment was so difficult that in that in middle school we we were able to find a Christian school and today I think my grandkids are are mostly if not all homeschooled. Um so I think that would be secondary considerations that is paying close attention to proper education and then a good communication that's one thing uh about it that my wife and I both tried to have personal time with kids individually collectively as a family. We had a Monday night was our night of family devotions and also family activities. We tried to have supper every night unless I was out of town together where we talked.

Um that communication is so important. So that relationship is going to be very valuable.

Scripture references as spoken: 1 Corinthians 7.