Transcript of a published teaching by David K. Bernard, transcribed from YouTube. An attributed primary source — not Acts 2:38 Life doctrine text.
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Summary
Summary prepared by Acts 2:38 Life from the transcript below — the preacher’s words follow in full.
Start with the words: 'hell' in English covers several
- The question: in the closing verses of the chapter, John sees death and hell cast into the lake of fire — 'this is the second death' — and whoever was not found written in the Book of Life cast in too. Most of us think of hell as the lake of fire, but John describes death and hell being cast into it: what's going on, and how do we make sense of this passage and the other biblical teachings on the place we call hell? His answer starts with the word itself: 'hell' in English represents several different words in the Bible. In this passage, 'hell' is the Greek term Hades, which means place of the dead — parallel to the Old Testament word heard in the captions as Shield, Shell, and shol. But there's a different word Jesus used for hell in the sense of the lake of fire — gehenna. And there's a third word, in the second Peter passage, for the angels cast into judgment — from the Greek word heard as 'tart', Tartarus: in Greek thought, the lowest hell, the place of the dead where they're suffering.
- So to summarize: when the King James Version talks about people going to hell, it usually really means the place of the dead — not the permanent place where the unsaved will go after the last judgment, but a temporary place.
Scriptures: Revelation 20; 2 Peter 2
The intermediate state: a place of waiting, in two compartments
- If you look at the story Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus, it seems both were in a place of waiting: Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, in Paradise — a place of rest and comfort, although not in the direct presence of the Lord at that time; the rich man in a place of torment or unrest, separated by a gulf. Both, it seems, were in this temporary place. To put it together: there's more we don't know about the future and the afterlife — what we call the intermediate state, the time between when we die and the time of the last judgment — than what we do know. But piecing together what we do know: when people die, they go to a place of waiting for the judgment. Before Jesus Christ died and rose again to pay the price for our sins, both believers and unbelievers went to the same place — Hades — but in two compartments: one a place of rest, one a place of unrest.
What changed at the resurrection
- Yes — he does think there's been a difference since then. After the resurrection of Christ, according to Paul's statements, believers go into the direct presence of God. It seems one of the benefits of the cross is this: Jesus, like all other humans — as a human, when he died — went to this place of Hades (the Acts passage states it; the King James word is 'hell', but it's the Greek Hades), and it seems he proclaimed victory and led the righteous dead into the presence of the Lord. They're still waiting for the resurrection — so it's still an intermediate state — but it's in the presence of the Lord.
- With that in mind, the chapter is saying: the unrighteous dead are in this place of waiting, Hades — their body in the grave, their soul and spirit in the temporary place. When they come to the last judgment and are found to have not believed on Jesus Christ, not received his salvation, they will endure the permanent judgment: death and Hades will be cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire becomes the permanent judgment — the eternal punishment Jesus spoke of a number of times.
Scriptures: Acts 2
Gehenna: a real place we describe inadequately
- He believes hell — the lake of fire in the eternal sense — is a real place, a real place of separation from God (he has a chapter on salvation and eternal judgment in his book Anchor Point). But trying to describe it in physical terms is inadequate. Yes, it's described as a lake of fire — and the underlying word, gehenna (heard as 'gehen'), comes from the valley heard as 'ham', on the west and south of Jerusalem. In the first century it was kind of the garbage dump for the city: physical garbage, fires burning endlessly, maggots eating on things. And in ancient times, when the people of Judah backslid, they actually sacrificed children to Molech in this valley — so it was also a place of spiritual disgust, spiritual horrors, where the most terrible blasphemy and child sacrifice had occurred in violation of God's plan. For Jesus to take that term is a very significant metaphor: this is what eternity without God will be like.
- But translating it into physical terms misses the point: Jesus also used parables about people being cast into outer darkness — so which is it, a lake of fire or outer darkness? The point is a spiritual reality. It's a real place, but drawing pictures of little demons poking people with pitchforks, or people on a barbecue spit turned slowly to be roasted, is grossly over-literalizing the scripture. Even Jesus said the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched — so it can't be a physical fire that burns up your physical body. It has to be described in terms we can comprehend — fire, outer darkness — but the essence is greater than we can comprehend.
The essence: everlasting destruction from the presence of God
- What the second Thessalonians chapter says: when Jesus Christ returns, he will come in flaming fire to take vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; they will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of God. So the essence of the eternal judgment — what we call the lake of fire, hell in that one sense — is to be eternally separated from God. Think about it: God is the source of life; every good and perfect gift comes from God, according to the Book of James. Even today, all of us — even atheists, sinners — are enjoying the grace of God, the common grace that sustains all of us, whether we realize it or not. Every good thing people experience — love, joy, peace — ultimately comes from God, even in human relationships, because God created us with that capacity. Sin separates us from God, but if we persist in sin, do not repent, do not obey the gospel, and die in that condition, then comes an eternal separation: sinners in the lake of fire will experience the total absence of God in a way they never experienced in this life — the total absence of all grace, all goodness, all love, all joy, all peace.
- So the essence of the punishment will not be a physical burning: it will be spiritual anguish — and he thinks that includes regret. People who've known the Lord and rejected him will have a greater experience of punishment than perhaps someone who never knew the Lord. Now you're cut off from the source of life, the source of grace. And really, God isn't sending anyone to the lake of fire: people are going there because of their own choice of separating themselves from the source of life.
Scriptures: 2 Thessalonians 1; James
Death is separation — and Jesus tasted it for everyone
- If you separate yourself from the source of life, what's the alternative? Death — and death is not cessation of existence, but separation. The book of Hebrews talks about how Jesus tasted death for every person; the Book of John talks about how if you believe in Jesus you'll never die. What does that mean? We are all subject to physical death before the rapture. In our unsaved condition we are enjoying God's common grace in this world; when we're saved we enjoy fellowship with God; we will die physically, but we'll go into the presence of the Lord, and then have eternity with the Lord — we will never experience that eternal separation. We die physically, but never the total eternal separation from God.
- When Jesus died, not only did he die physically: as indicated by his cry on the cross — 'my God, my God, why have you forsaken me' — he took the punishment of the sins of the world; he actually felt, as a sinner will feel in the lake of fire, for that time, the eternal separation; he tasted that death for everyone. For those of us who are saved, Jesus paid that price for us; we will never experience it. For those who are lost — who have rejected Christ's sacrifice — they will.
Scriptures: Hebrews
Is it just? Degrees, knowledge, and a fair God
- This outcome is so awful that our minds struggle: is it fair, is it just? When you sin against an infinite God, there can be infinite consequences — but God is just and fair, and the Bible gives indications that even for those who die without God, God will be fair toward them. How that will be implemented, he doesn't know. Human systems try to make sense of the awfulness: the Roman Catholic idea of purgatory — believe in Christ, be part of the church, commit some sins, die, spend ages paying for them, then go to heaven — the Bible doesn't teach that. Annihilation — immediately, or after some suffering, wiped out of existence — the Bible doesn't really teach that either. These are human ways to convince ourselves or unbelievers that God will be fair, against the charge of excessive punishment.
- But there are other ways to look at it. In the twelfth chapter of Luke's gospel, Jesus gave a parable: the servant who did not know his master's will but violated it will be beaten with few stripes; the servant who knew his master's will and deliberately violated it will be beaten with many stripes. There will be different levels of punishment based on a person's knowledge and culpability. That doesn't mean anybody can be saved without Christ, or saved by good works — but works will be taken into account, and knowledge: what they knew, what they should have known. Many passages tell us God doesn't judge us by what we don't know; he judges by what we do know, or at least should have known. That doesn't mean someone who knows nothing gets a free pass — but the judgment will be based on actual knowledge, or what they could have known, and their culpability, not on a standard they could not have known. And there's the statement in the tenth chapter of Luke's gospel, where Jesus pronounces judgment on the cities of Galilee that rejected his message: it would be more tolerable in the judgment for Ty and Sodom (the names as they are heard in the captions), those evil cities, because if they had had this kind of message they would have repented. Somehow judgment will be more tolerable for some than for others. Some have wondered whether in eternity there could be a time of punishment and suffering and then a kind of semi-conscious disquietude where the intensity is gone — he doesn't know how that works. We can't offer salvation for someone who rejects the gospel; but if we say this seems too awful to contemplate — is it really just for all eternity? — he'll just say: we trust that God will be just and fair. It's not based on God being punitive: God is holy, we're sinners, we reject the plan of salvation, we reject fellowship with God, and we're left with the alternative. It's like unplugging yourself from electricity so you don't have power: you can't have it, because you're disconnected from the source. If we disconnect from the source of life and grace, we're left with the absence of life and grace. That's not God's fault; that's the way it is — and it's permanent. But he does believe God is just and fair and merciful, so even for those who are lost, God will have a fair outcome; we can't understand what that will be like, but we can trust it is just and fair.
Scriptures: Luke 12; Luke 10
To go back to the question: two concepts
- So, to go back to the original question: you have to understand that the word 'hell' in the King James English represents two primary concepts — one, a temporary place of waiting called Hades, before the judgment; and then the permanent place of judgment, gehenna or the lake of fire, for those who have ultimately, permanently rejected the gospel.
Scripture index: Revelation 20; 2 Peter 2; Acts 2; 2 Thessalonians 1; James; Hebrews; Luke 12; Luke 10.
Transcript
first it's important to understand the meaning of the word hell in English it actually represents several different words in the Bible so we've got to start there so in Revelation 20 for example when death and hell are CA cast in the Lake of Fire hell there is the Greek term Hades which means place of the dead it's a parallel to the Old Testament uh word Shield but there is a different word used by Jesus uh for hell in the sense of the Lake of Fire and that's gehenna and actually there's a third word used in second Peter Two for the angels that were uh cast into judgment and there the hell is from the Greek word tart Tartarus which uh in Greek mythology or Greek thought would be like the lowest hell or you know the place of the Dead where they're suffering so to summarize what I think is happening when the Bible the King James version talks about people going to hell it really means the place of the Dead Old Testament Shell New Testament Hades not the permanent place where people will go after the last judgment who are unsaved but a temporary place uh so uh if you look at the story Jesus told of the rich man in Lazarus it seems that both were in a place of waiting Lazarus in Abraham's bosom in Paradise a place of rest and comfort uh although not in the direct presence of the Lord at that time the rich man in a place of Torment or unrest but separated by a gulf it seems that both were in this temporary place so to try to put it all together and I would say there's more we don't know about the future and the afterlife uh and what we call the intermediate state that is the Place between the time between we die and the time of the last judgment there's more that we don't know about that than what we do know but piecing together what we do know uh it seems that when people die they go to a place of waiting for the Judgment now before Jesus Christ died and rose again to pay the price for our sins both Believers and unbelievers went to the same place of shol Hades but two compartments one a place of rest one a place of unrest
yes I do think there's been a difference because after the resurrection of Christ uh you find according to Paul's statements that Believers go into the direct presence of God it seems that one of the benefits of the Cross is that Jesus like all other humans as a human when he died he went to this place of Hades which um Acts 2 actually States and it's King James word hell but it's the Greek Hades and it seems that he proclaimed Victory and and led the righteous dead into the presence of the Lord so they're still waiting for the resurrection so it's still an intermediate state but it's in the presence of the Lord so with that in mind Revelation 20 would be saying the unrighteous dead would be in this place of waiting Hades so their body is in the grave their soul spirit is in this temporary place of waiting Hades so when they go to the last judgment and they're found to have not believed on Jesus Christ not received his salvation they will endure the permanent judgment so death and Hades will be cast to the Lake of Fire so the Lake of Fire becomes the permanent judgment now Jesus spoke of this a number of times the Lake of Fire uh and so that is the Eternal punishment and let me just add and by the way I have a chapter on in my book anchor points which discusses Salvation And it discusses Eternal judgment and I think we should be careful I believe hell the Lake of Fire in the Eternal sense is a real place and it's a real place of separation from God but I think trying to describe it in physical terms is inadequate so yes Jesus and here in Revelation it describes Des cries it as a lake of fire the underling Greek word is gehen which actually comes from the valley of ham so in the first century uh Jerusalem ham was a valley on the west and the south of Jerusalem and it was kind of the garbage dump for the city uh in ancient times when Israel backslid the the people of Judah backslid they actually sacrificed children to Molech in this Valley so was considered to be a place of disgust physical garbage uh fires burning endlessly maggots uh eating on things and also a place of spiritual disgust spiritual Horrors where the most terrible blasphemy and child sacrifice had occurred uh in violation of of God's plan and the worship of the one true God so for Jesus to take that term it it's a a very significant metaphor this is what eternity without God will be like but to try to translate into physical terms I think is missing the point because Jesus also Talk use Parables talking about people being cast into outer Darkness so some people say well which is it is the Lake of Fire is it like is it out of Darkness you know this and that and so I think the point is a spiritual reality so it's a real place but to try to draw a picture of little demons you know poking people p Forks or people on a barbecue spit being turned over slowly to be roasted you know that's uh grossly lettering the scripture what I would say over literalizing it I think what we should instead understand second Thessalonians chapter 1 says that when Jesus Christ returns he will come in flaming fire to take Vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ they will be punished with Everlasting destruction from the presence of God so the essence of the Eternal judgment what we call the Lake of Fire hell in that one sense is to be eternally separated from god so let's think about this God is the source of life every good and perfect gift comes from God according to the Book of James and so even today all of us even atheist Sinners uh don't realize it necessarily but they're enjoying the grace of God the common Grace that sustains all of us uh every good thing that people experience love joy peace It ultimately comes from God even in human relationships it's because God has created us with that capacity so although we don't realize it many times everyone is enjoying God's grace but sin separates us from God and if we persist in sin do not repent do not obey the gospel and we die in that conition then now we're going to an eternal separation from God so I believe what's going to happen is sinners in the Lake of Fire will experience the total absence of God in a way that they never experienced in this life the total absence of all Grace all goodness all love all joy all peace and I think the essence of that punishment will not be a physical burning because after all even Jesus said the worm dies not the fire isn't quenched so it can't be a physical fire or burn up your physical body but it's talking about a spiritual reality uh that's greater than we can comprehend but it has to be described in terms we can comprehend such as fire and outer Darkness but the essence of it is that we will be separated from our creator uh and and it will be the spiritual anguish and I think that includes regret and and and so people who've known the Lord and rejected him will have a great U experience of punishment than perhaps someone who who never knew the Lord and of course this is such an awful reality to comprehend because now you're cut off from the source of Life the source of Grace you you actually God isn't sending anyone to the Lake of Fire people are going there because of their own choice of separating themselves from the source of life so if you separate yourself from the sources of Life what's the alternative death and death is not not cessation of existence but separation and the book of Hebrews talks about how that Jesus tasted death for every person and the Book of John talks about if you believe in Jesus you'll never die well what do that mean we are all subject to physical death before the Rapture but those of us who are saved as I said even in our unsaved condition we are enjoying the common grace of God in this world then we're saved now we enjoy fellowship with with God we will die physically but we'll go in the presence of the Lord and then will'll have eternity with the Lord we will never experience that Eternal separation I'm talking about so we will die physically but we will never experience that total Eternal separation from God I think that when Jesus died not only did he die physically but as indicated by his cry on the cross my God my God why have you forsaken me he took the punishment of the sins of the world he actually felt as a sinner feel in the lake of heart he felt for that time the Eternal separation he tasted that death for everyone so for those of us who were saved Jesus Paid that price for us we will never experience that for those who are lost they have rejected Christ sacrifice they will experience that now this outcome is so awful that of course our minds struggle uh you know is it fair is it just and I will say this that when you sin against an infinite God there can be infinite consequences but I do think God is just and fair and the Bible does give some indications that uh even those who die without God God will be fair towards them now how that will be implemented I don't know some have come up with ideas like the Roman Catholic Church says well you know if you believed in Christ but you and you were part of the church but you committed some sins you die you go to purgatory you you spend ages paying for your sins then you go to heaven well obviously the Bible doesn't teach that others say there's Annihilation that so that you're either immediately or after some time of suffering you're just wiped out of existence well the Bible doesn't really teach that but these are human ways to try to make sense of the awfulness of this punishment but try to con maybe to convince ourselves or or unbelievers or God's gonna be fair he's not going to be because people say well isn't that excessive punishment but I do think there are other ways to look at that for example in Luke 12 Jesus gave a very interesting Parable that said the servant that did not know his master's will but but VI violated will be beaten with few Stripes but the servant who knew his master's will and deliberately violated will be beaten with many stripes so there will be different levels of punishment based on a person's knowledge and culpability uh um doesn't mean anybody can be saved without Christ uh nobody can be saved by good works but yet Works will be taken to account and their their knowledge what they knew what they should have known will be taken to account there are many passages of scripture that tell us that God doesn't judge us by what we don't know he judges Us by what we do know or at least should have known again that doesn't mean someone who doesn't know anything gets a free pass but it means God will be fair and just and the judgment will be based on their actual knowledge or what they could have known and their culpability not by some standard that they could not have known or did not know there's an also an interesting statement in the gospels you see it in Luke 10 for example where Jesus is pronouncing judgment on the cities of Galilee that reject his message and he said it would be more tolerable in the Judgment for Ty and sod Sodom these evil cities because if they had had this kind of message they would have repented so what does that mean it doesn't mean people are going to be saved that are disobedient but somehow judgment will be more tolerable for some than for others and so you know some have wondered you know in eternity could there be a time of punishment and suffering and then you kind of go into a snance or or you know maybe a semiconscious or disquietude where the intensity is gone I don't know how that that works I know we can't say the Book of Revelation says that the unbelieving and the disobedient will be in the Lake of Fire so we can't offer salvation for someone who rejects the gospel or uh who is disobedient to God but I think we can say and maybe this is where I'll end up if we say this seems too awful to contemplate uh is this really just for all eternity I will just say we trust that God will be just and fair so we cannot mitigate or deny the awful reality of Eternal separation from God uh it's not based on God being punitive it's based on the the reality God is Holy we're Sinners we reject the Plan of Salvation so we reject fellowship with God we're left with the alternative so it's like unplugging yourself from electricity so you don't have power uh you can't have it because you're disconnected from The Source if we disconnect from the source of life and Grace We're left with the absence of life and Grace so that's not God's fault that's the way it is and it's permanent but I do believe God is just and fair and merciful so I believe that even for those who are lost uh God will have a fair outcome uh and we can't really understand what that will be like but we can trust that it is just and fair so to go back to your original question um you have to understand that uh the word hell in the King James English represents uh two primary Concepts one a temporary place of waiting called Hades before the judgment and then the permanent place of judgment um gehenna or the lake of fire for those who have ultimately imp permanently rejected the gospel
Scripture references as spoken: Revelation 20; 2 Peter 2; Acts 2; 2 Thessalonians 1; James; Hebrews; Luke 12; Luke 10.