Will the Wicked Cease to Exist in Hell?

Summary

Summary prepared by Acts 2:38 Life from the transcript below — the preacher’s words follow in full.

The Manual's Actual Wording — Teach, Not Merely Believe

• The question posed: I want to ask you a question about something that appears in the official manual of the UPCI. We have a line in there — and I'll just read it to you directly. It says: 'We will not give credentials to ministers who believe in the annihilation of the wicked dead.' Now, for folks who aren't familiar with that teaching: the idea of the annihilation of the wicked is that the wicked would cease to exist in hell, versus suffering eternally in torment. Where did this idea of the annihilation of the wicked come from? And why do you feel it's not right, according to Scripture?
• It's an interesting question. So, first of all, let me qualify, or clarify, a nuance in the UPCI manual. The actual wording is: we will not give credentials to someone who teaches this doctrine. And there's several doctrines listed in that section. And that's an important distinction, because there are some people who believe that, as a personal conviction, but if they agree not to teach it publicly, not to promote it, then we will grant them credentials. So we actually do have some ministers who believe that, or come to that belief, but they have agreed: this is not something we teach. And also, what's interesting to me is, over the years, when I've had to process applications, as a district superintendent, the most common mistake people will make is — 'Do you teach the annihilate?' There's a question on the application — or we may have reworded it recently — but it says, 'Do you believe in the annihilation of the wicked?' And a lot of — especially people applying for the first time — they don't really know what that means. And they think it's something really bad, you know, means punishment. So, yes, of course. And actually, then they're called in, to say: 'No, wait a minute. Do you believe this, or not? Because if you believe it, and you're going to teach this, then we're not going to give you credentials.' So — and I think every time that's ever happened, they've always changed their answer, saying, 'No, I don't believe that.' So, there's a philosophical question: is the soul actually immortal, so that it survives no matter what? Or is the soul — when a person dies, do they die, and then they're resurrected by God, if they're saved? And then others might say: well, even if the soul is immortal, but the punishment will be absolute destruction. People like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventist, and other groups, believe this. Mainstream Christian groups believe there is eternal punishment, or an everlasting existence in the lake of fire. But there are many people who have different perspectives and beliefs. So it's kind of tied to: do you believe that God has created the person, as — the human soul is immortal? Or do you believe that their life is derived from God, so that if they die, they don't exist until God resurrects them?

The Dead Live to God — Rich Man and Lazarus

• Of course, Jesus kind of addressed this, when the Pharisees were asking this question about who will be married in the resurrection — or, the Sadducees. And Jesus pointed out: you don't even believe in the resurrection, because the Sadducees didn't. But he said: 'Haven't you read, where, back in Exodus, when God spoke to Moses, he said: I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?' So Abraham was already dead, for hundreds of years. So, in what sense did God say, 'I am'? 'I am the God of Abraham.' It seems that Abraham was alive, to God. So that would be an indication, from the teaching of Jesus, that even though a person dies, they don't automatically cease to exist, and then would have to be — their soul would have to be recreated, or revived. But there is some sense that, even though the body is dead, and would have to be resurrected, the inner person — soul, spirit — continues to live on, in some type of conscious existence. And if they're saved, awaiting the resurrection, to eternal life. That is a slightly different subject, but it ties into this. And I think we've dealt with that, in another episode, of the intermediate state. And I've given, from the writings of the Apostle Paul, it seems that when believers die, they're in the presence of the Lord. So we don't all go to sleep, as far as our soul; or we don't cease to exist, as far as our soul. But there's a conscious existence. And the story — some say it's a parable; some say it's a real-life story — of the rich man and Lazarus, that also Jesus gave, in the gospel of Luke, I think chapter 16, indicates that both the rich man, in the place of torment, and Lazarus, in the place of rest, both had a conscious existence, after physical death. Which again would go against the idea of soul sleep, or ceasing to exist. And so, then, there still could be annihilation, you know, at the very end. But — and it would be an attractive doctrine, so to speak, maybe feeling some relief. And I think the real reason that people gravitate toward this is not so much an explicit statement of Scripture, but this feeling of justice. You know, could any — should anybody be punished, no matter how bad — or even, if they're really bad, you know — it seems like, at some point, God will be merciful, and cut off the suffering. And we would not want to think of maybe someone like Adolf Hitler — we don't care so much — but some lost loved one, or some morally good person, who never really believed in Jesus, but lived a good moral life. What about a Jewish person, who was killed in the Holocaust, because they believed in one God, but yet they never even knew about Jesus Christ, or never — so, you know, you could think of a lot of scenarios, where: do you want them to suffer endlessly? And of course, no. So, then, surely there's an alternative. But I think what we have to do is go by Scripture.

Scriptures: Exodus (book-only); Luke 16

Death Is Separation — Not Cessation

• Now, so, let's look at the philosophical argument. First of all, God is not sending people to hell. So God is the creator. He's the source of life. He's the source of every good thing: grace, love, joy, peace. But God is also holy. So, when we live in sin, we separate ourselves from God. That means we have separated ourselves from the source of life: all love, joy, peace, goodness. Even in this life, if we're not serving God — or, if we're even atheist, don't believe in God — but yet, any amount of love, joy, and peace that we enjoy has ultimately come from God. But when we die, that time comes to an end. And if we're not serving God, not connected to him, then we're facing eternity, without God. So that's considered death. Not necessarily sessation of existence. But the meaning of death, in Scripture — the fundamental meaning — is separation. So, for example, when you die, you don't just cease to exist, but your soul, spirit, separates from your body. So, when God told Adam and Eve, 'If you sin, that day you'll die' — when they sinned, they didn't physically die immediately, but they were separated from the presence of God. So, if a sinner dies — someone who's not in relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ — when they die, their spirit is separated from God; their spirit is separated from their body; but their spirit is also separated from God. They no longer have that love, joy, peace, and grace — or life. So they go into eternity, without God. And so, it's not that God punishes them eternally. It's: they made a choice, to be separated from God, and they get the consequences of their choice. Now, I think what helps is: the Bible speaks of hell as the lake of fire. It speaks of it as a place of utter darkness. And we know that's a terrible existence. But I don't think we can think of it as a physical place, where somebody's roasting over a barbecue pit. You know, it's not like a torture, like God is torturing people. Maybe a lot of medieval images were of that nature. And that's why some people say: 'Well, surely God wouldn't do that.' So maybe annihilation is the more accurate understanding. I think it's more accurate to understand that hell is an existence, without God. And therefore, if that's the choice, how can it be undone? And also consider: our sin is against the infinite God. So it does logically make sense, that the separation would be equally infinite, if we finally reject him.

The Direct Statements: Eternal, Forever and Ever

• Of course, with what I've just said, someone could still say: well, okay, yeah, but I think annihilation is the eternal punishment. But here we run into more the direct teaching of Scripture. So, for example, in Matthew 25:46, when Jesus was speaking of judgment, he said: 'And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.' Now, I read from the New King James. The King James and New King James use 'everlasting' and 'eternal', but it's the same Greek word. So, if we think of the saved, having eternal life — that is a positive existence — then the unsaved have an equally eternal punishment. So it doesn't indicate annihilation. It indicates a parallel existence. Another passage that we can look at — and there are many, but I'm just giving you kind of a brief synopsis. So, that's the words of Jesus. So, the problem with the doctrine of annihilation, it seems: while it sounds attractive — where you can make a logical case — then you run directly into what Jesus said, in Mark chapter 9. Jesus talks about, in verse 42 — Mark 9:42: 'But whoever causes one of these little ones, who believe in me, to stumble: it would be better for him, if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched: where their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched.' That's a quote from Isaiah. And then he repeats that, three times. Of course, he's speaking metaphorically. He's not really saying physically cut off your hand. But he's saying: you should do whatever discipline is necessary in this life, even if it means to deprive yourself of some things you want to do, rather than go into hell, the lake of fire, which will never be quenched. And then, also, we find an example in Revelation 20 — an actual case, you might say — when judgment comes, in the end, to what we call the antichrist, or the man of sin, the beast of Revelation, and the false prophet. And in Revelation 20:10: 'The devil, who deceived them, was cast in the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented, day and night, forever and ever.' So, the beast and the false prophet had previously been judged, and sent to the lake of fire. And here, after the thousand-year millennial kingdom, and the last rebellion against God, now the devil is cast into the lake of fire. And it seems like the beast and the false prophet, who are humans, have been there for a thousand years. So that would indicate — and also, tormented day and night, forever and ever. So, while you could make a case that annihilation is an eternal punishment, and maybe, you know, fit our feelings of justice — you have these direct statements of Scripture, that the torment, or the punishment, is eternal; is forever and ever. So another way to look at this would be: again, our sense of justice is derived from God, but it's flawed, by our imperfections, and our lack of knowledge. So, at the end, I would say: we just have to trust God. So, if you feel like, well, that punishment seems excessive; it seems unfair; it seems worse than I would do — it's like, this person versus that person — it all boils down: do you really trust God? He has infinite knowledge. He is more merciful than we are. He's also just. So he will do what's right. So, if he says their punishment is forever, I accept that. And I accept that it will be just.

Scriptures: Matthew 25:46; Mark 9:42-48; Isaiah (book-only); Revelation 20:10

Degrees of Punishment — and Everlasting Destruction

• However, I do think we get some indication, in Scripture — and this may help us, when we're talking about this subject — that God himself has given indication, in Scripture, that the punishment will differ, based on the individual. So I don't know how that would be implemented. But again, just a simplistic idea, of people roasting in flames, and demons poking them with pitchforks, is not really accurate. Because somehow, even though eternity without God will be devastating, there will be a difference, based on people's knowledge, and their response, and their level of sin. And so, let me — if that sounds like a strange idea, let me give you Scripture, that pretty much indicates this, which would help us understand. We don't necessarily have to adopt the doctrine of annihilation. But we can instead affirm: well, God's punishment is eternal, but it's going to be fair. And so, whatever questions we have, that make it seem unfair: no, it's going to be fair. So, here again, the words of Jesus — Luke 12:47 and 48: 'And that servant, who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself, or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required. And to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.' So the punishment will come, but it will be different, based on the level of culpability, or responsibility, or knowledge. So it's not saying someone can be saved, out of ignorance. But it's saying there can certainly be a lesser punishment, based on their lack — their degree of understanding, and responsibility, and culpability. Here's another interesting statement, again from Jesus, in Matthew 11, verse 20-24: 'Then he began to rebuke the cities, in which most of his mighty works have been done, because they did not repent. Woe to the cities he names: for if the mighty works, which are done in you, had been done in Ty and Siden, they would have repented long ago, in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you: it will be more tolerable for Ty and Siden, in the day of judgment, than for you. And you, Capernum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works, which are done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I say to you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of judgment, than for you.' So what does that mean? But it does indicate — doesn't indicate these people are going to get a pass; they're going to be saved; they're going to end up in heaven. But it does indicate that their existence, without God, will be much different, and much more tolerable, or bearable.
• And then, let me give you another statement of Scripture, that might have some bearing on all this. And that is a very interesting reference, in the book of Job. Which, you know, you have to be careful, how much you think Job reflects full knowledge, in light of the New Testament. But he talks about death, in Job 3:17: 'There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. There the prisoners rest together; they do not hear the voice of the oppressor. The small and great are there, and the servant is free from his master.' That's Job 3:17-19. And 'servant' here — many translations, such as the NIV, will say 'slave'. Now, again, this would not mean that people are necessarily saved. But there is some indication that people who suffered greatly, in this life, somehow have rest from that. So, if someone who was oppressed, their whole life — they were a slave, they had a miserable existence — and I'm thinking, okay, this would go back to my example: the Jews, that were tortured and murdered in the Holocaust. Again, that doesn't mean they're saved, without Jesus Christ. But could it mean that, in their case, they had such intense suffering, or injustices, in this life, that somehow it's rectified, in the life to come? Could there be — I don't know that we could actually say they go out of existence, or they go to sleep. But could it be kind of like an in-between state of somnolence, where they're conscious, but barely? You know, it's not as if they're roasting in fire. So I think there's room for us to — I don't think we can teach a doctrine, of what it's actually going to be like. But I think there's room. All I'm really trying to say is this: God's justice will be fair. So, when somebody dies, without the Lord, they will have the most merciful, and fair, judge, that they could ever have. So we don't have to create a doctrine, such as annihilation, to assure ourselves that it's going to be okay, or going to be fair, according to our understanding. We can trust what God says. It will be eternal. And I'll give you another passage of Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 1:8 says, when Jesus Christ comes back, with his angels — he'll come back, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on all those who do not know God, and who do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ — who shall be punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. Once again, somebody could say: well, couldn't annihilation be destruction? But I think the emphasis, of 'everlasting destruction' — it's more common to understand: it's an everlasting existence, without the presence of God. Therefore, without grace, love, joy, peace, life. But yet, it will be fair, based on the person's culpability, knowledge, accountability, and experiences in this life. So, at the end, we have to preach a very strong message: everyone needs to be saved. You need to be saved, through the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you don't, there's everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord. But I don't think we should, or could, you know, try to focus on: well, you're going to be tortured, endlessly; you're going to — every part of your body is going to burn, and this, and that, and the other. I think we have to say: it is terrible. It goes beyond — it's a spiritual existence, beyond our understanding — variously described, as the lake of fire, as eternal destruction, as outer darkness. So, obviously, it's very bad. You don't want to go there. But it will be just and fair, and God will treat everybody the way he should. Now, for an imaginative rendition — which I don't, obviously, wouldn't agree with — but Dante's Inferno is a famous, classical source, from a Catholic perspective. And so, he talks about different types of sin, and different types of culpability. And so, how he imagines: some people will suffer terribly, but it will be based on the type of sins they committed. Some people have a kind of a — what we might think, almost a neutral existence — because of their lack of knowledge, and lack of culpability. Of course, the Catholics also have the place called purgatory, which you could eventually be purged, and then go to heaven. But of course, the Bible doesn't teach that, at all. I think it's better — than to try to go into all these speculations — I think it's better to say: we just trust God. His judgment will be fair, under all conditions. But you do want to be saved, and you don't want to be lost.

Scriptures: Luke 12:47-48; Matthew 11:20-24; Job 3:17-19; 2 Thessalonians 1:8

Scripture index: Exodus (book-only); Luke 16; Matthew 25:46; Mark 9:42-48; Isaiah (book-only); Revelation 20:10; Luke 12:47-48; Matthew 11:20-24; Job 3:17-19; 2 Thessalonians 1:8.